开吃蜂产品，给各位战友做个实验！

StephenW

tim889 发表于 2020-8-21 11:54
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covid19 is a virus.  honey is antiviral. honey can cure covid.

May be. Need to be investigated. Have you investigated?

                Efficacy of Natural Honey Treatment in Patients With Novel Coronavirus                     

The safety and scientific validity of this study is the responsibility of the study sponsor and investigators. Listing a study does not mean it has been evaluated by the U.S. Federal Government.                              Know the risks and potential benefits of clinical studies and talk to your health care provider before participating.                            Read our disclaimer for details.

      
      
   
      

ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier: NCT04323345

Recruitment Status  :                     Recruiting                                              First Posted  : March 26, 2020       Last Update Posted  : April 21, 2020             See Contacts and Locations

  
  
                Sponsor:
                 Misr University for Science and Technology
                              Information provided by (Responsible Party):
                Mahmoud Ahmed Tantawy, Misr University for Science and Technology
                     

        

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                                                                                                    Study Description
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  Brief Summary:
  The novel coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) caused by severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS CoV-2) has been discovered recently in December 2019 from wuhan city in China to spread in more than 40 countries allover the world. This disease has gain the attention of all nations after it has been stated as a pandemic by the World Health Organization (WHO) in March 12, 2020. Currently no treatment has been proved to be efficient in the treatment of infected patients by COVID-19. Natural honey has been demonstrated as potent antimicrobial in many research investigations and has been considered a good alternative for antiviral drugs for the treatment of some viral infections. The investigators aim to study the efficacy of natural honey in the treatment of COVID-19 patients in this randomized , multicenter, controlled trial, comparing honey in one arm to standard care in the other arm.

      

Condition or disease	Intervention/treatment	Phase
COVID-19	Dietary Supplement: Natural Honey                Other: Standard Care	Phase 3

  
                            Detailed Description:
      

The (SARS CoV-2) virus is spreading globally, threatening all healthcare systems. Many healthcare systems and organizations are using different protocols and measures to fight the COVID-19. Hydroxychloroquine, lopinavir and other antiviral medications are currently under research investigations. Natural honey has been well known for its high health properties in diabetes, nutrition, dyslipidemia, skin lesions and it got FDA approval for topical wound treatment in 2007 as the most potent antimicrobial agent. Honey has been previously considered as an alternative for acyclovir in the treatment of herpes simplex virus 1 (HSV-1) and it also demonstrated for its significant antiviral effect against varicella zoster virus (VZV). Many studies have demonstrated the broad spectrum antimicrobial effect of honey as an antibacterial, anti fungal, antiviral and antimycobacterial. The National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE) and the Public Health England (PHE) guidelines recommended honey as a first line of treatment for acute cough caused by upper respiratory tract infection which is currently a cornerstone symptom in COVID-19 infectious disease. Moreover, natural honey should no longer be used as "alternative" and deserves to gain more attention by scientists and researchers. The aim of this trial is to study the efficacy of natural honey in treatment of patients infected with COVID-19 in comparison with current standard care.

  

Methods:

  

This will be a randomized , multi center, double armed clinical trial, patients will be randomly assigned to two groups on 1:1 basis. Natural honey group will include patients receiving standard care and added intervention in the form of natural honey in a dose of 1gm/kg/day (previously used safely in small studies) divided into 2 to 3 doses for continuous 14 days. The other arm is the arm receiving the standard care according to the center protocol.

  

Our primary outcome is days for recovery using the parameters: turning from positive to negative swaps, days from fever to no fever and lung inflammation recovery in x ray or CT, our secondary outcome is the 30 days mortality rate. Data will be collected and statistically managed using STATA blindly from who received the intervention.

   

StephenW

tim889 发表于 2020-8-21 11:56
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这个argument貌似比提高免疫的逻辑漏洞更明显了吧？！您有经过稍微最起码的思考么？ ...

Not finding any references to "Honey and HBV" is different from saying there were no studies regarding honey and HBV. Try to be honest first, before giving your own opinions.

tim889

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请不要转移话题。首先您提供了一堆文献，结果和hbv毫不相关。仅凭antiviral和honey这两个在review中出现的词语，不经过primary source的确认，就说honey能治疗HBV，这是最基本的逻辑错误。我说covid，不是想和您讨论是否蜂蜜能治疗covid，而是举一个最简单的例子，告诉您的逻辑漏洞在哪里。

现在是您无法提供证实蜂产品和hbv有关联的文献。如果您说有关联，那么请提供文献。primary source。

我说过我找不到任何可靠的蜂蜜和蜂产品和乙肝的临床实验数据。如果您有，那么就请提供，不然没有什么可以讨论的。如果您找不到，那么我们就应该等待有严格的临床实验的数据，再决定是否应该吃蜂产品。

最后，您的“找不到就不代表没有”的逻辑的最大问题就是无法证伪。用您的逻辑，我永远没有办法证明给你看永动机不可能实现，因为找不到被真正发明了的永动机的论文。同理，您也可以永远相信任何一个（不可证伪的）观点，因为永远没有论文能证明这个观点是错误的。受过一定程度的科学训练的都应该知道此类讨论应该避免，因为其不在科学范畴内。

tim889

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我只是简单告诉您一件事情

您转发的论文毫不相关。我们在讨论蜂产品和乙肝，您发了一篇带有蜂蜜和抗病毒抗细菌字眼的综述类论文。暂且不说是否其中所引用的原始实验是否合理。只凭这几个词就想说明蜂蜜能治疗乙肝，已经不是不严谨了，而是有最最基本的的逻辑错误。

tim889

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我从没有说过这个世界上不存在相关论文。我只说过凭我10余年在美国的科班出身的科学训练的能力找不到。我不知道仁兄的"honest"和“your opinion”从何谈起？ 如果您能找到，那么您就提供，就这么简单。现在是您提供了说明不了问题的文章以及错误的逻辑，我来纠正一下而已。

StephenW

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You are dishonest in claiming that you cannot find any references regarding Honey and HBV. It does not require any special skills to do a simple Google search. In reading those references, you may conclude that they are irrelevant, but this is your personal opinion.

tim889

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难道我之前都白说了么？我说了我找不到临床论文。如果您要证明我dishonest, 请您提供Honey and HBV的临床论文！！！

tim889

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您明白临床论文的定义吧？

tim889

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这个世界上google几乎任何两个字都能return entry, 但是不代表每一条entry都是相关的。我想这应该是常识吧？

tim889

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还有我不太明白为什么您突然改用英文回我，感到有点莫名其妙。不知道您是不是不想别的坛友看懂。虽然您可能会比较费劲，我也不介意阅读您的英文。为了能让坛友明白在讨论的内容，我还是用中文回复您，个别术语使用英文（因为有些术语我不熟悉中文）。