“王震宇”“王震宇控诉bigben446”话题唯一讨论帖

MiddleAgeMan

to 大姐夫马甲

拉米变异率高，恩替变异低。这已经是一个事实。
这是不论指南、会议、论文都公认的事实。

就像现在很多人，很多报纸，很多新闻，甚至我,包括我的测试，都证明了windows7比windows xp更好。

但是我现在使用windows xp和大家对话。而且，你们当中的很多人，仍旧在使用windows xp。这也是一个事实。

但是：没有任何杂志，没有任何文章，推荐您继续使用windows xp------因为已经没有任何集团资助这些文章的发表了。继续使用的，都是老客户---和懂得经验的价值的人。

You are comparing apple with orange. If one day you do not want Window XP, it is not hard for you to throw out window xp and use window 7 again. But if one day you do have drug resistence with LAM, it is really, really hard to manage your HBV. I am not sure what is your education level. Please review your own logic here.

The point of argument here is that DR. Wang is not using the update guide line to treat his patients. Well anyone has their own selection of DR. But if for me, I would choose the best medical treatment I could get. If you want to test the appoved facts (high drug resistence with LAM), that is your own business.

Dan

MiddleAgeMan

To 鱿鱼:

多年来，我在老猫发的帖子里受益匪浅，而且经常论坛短信或手机短信咨询老王，指导我儿子携带期处理和去年免疫激活后的博路定治疗，非常感谢老猫的无私奉献！谢谢老猫王震宇！支持老猫王震宇！希望论坛和谐安宁！希望版主们和谐相处！
顺便说一句，我儿子原来携带期有几次转氨酶一过性升高，咨询老猫，老猫都不是说马上抗病毒，而是叫再复查，ALT下降就不治疗。他是22岁免疫激活，按照一般理论是上干扰素，但我权衡多方，最后选择了恩替卡韦，疗效还是很好的。

Why did you not select LAM for your son.

Again, bigben446 is trying to tell people that if you just start antiviral, then LAM is NOT the first choice for the treatment.

I see some other people said a lot of how is Dr. Wang is a good "person", he does not collect kick backs, he is kind with patients and so on. However, we are discussing his medical practice here and his practice is against the update guide line. Whether Dr. Wang's medical practice is good or not has nothing to do with his personality.

IF you are able to post here, I suppose that all you have finished your high school. Then if you could remember what your teacher had taught you what the LOGIC is.

Dan

MiddleAgeMan

To 大姐夫马甲

科学的结论具有唯一性？That is true.
爱因斯坦的相对论对的?牛顿的理论是错的？ 爱因斯坦 is correct. 牛顿 is correct. Their theories do not conflict.
量子力学是对的？相对论又是错的？ 量子力学 is correct. 相对论 is correct too.

But the updated guide line do not recommande LAM as first line of treatment. Dr. Wang use LAM as the first choice as treatment.

What is your logic here?

MiddleAgeMan

To 坚强懦弱:

王震宇一直在探索，且不管他的治疗方案和什么指南有没有点冲突，但至少王震宇是在不断探索的

If I or my loved one go to a doctor, I want a consevative, proven medical treatment. I DO NOT want to be a first mouse to test some Dr. curiosity, not to say that his investigation is against the update guideline and appoved facts. 探索 should not left to standard clinical trial, not for a single doctor, he does not have the ability, resource to do this kind of 探索.

MiddleAgeMan

To: 大姐夫马甲

拉米服用了6年的情况？比比皆是，8年的也有，我02年第一次服用拉米，如果连续服用，也应当8年了。你在论坛里呆着太少了。那些患者因为身体稳定，都不出来说话而已。我最近几年就很少上来，一个月偶尔来看一下，看不过去了才连续几天在这里说话。

比比皆是 1 out of 100,000, or 2 out of 1 million?

Please reference your result, where did you get it? Oh by the way, you might be able to chanlenge the approved results (LAM resistence, 5 year, around 70%)

MiddleAgeMan

To: 大姐夫马甲

我是02年算是第一批使用拉米的患者，自行停药，肝功3000，花了钱，伤了肝。

You do not want to see other chronic HBVer get hurt again? do you.

MiddleAgeMan

To 大姐夫马甲:

那是制药厂商的事情，我只是静静的看着各个药厂的数据

So you do believe the real data results from a Pharm company?

Again, 大姐夫马甲, when you believe something, use your judgement. By the way, in order to get the good judgement, you should have a clear mind in logic. By reading some of your argument, I really do not see that you have a clear mind with logic (based on your post)

MiddleAgeMan

To: 大姐夫马甲

但是，客观的说，目前你问我你要用哪个药物，我还是选择拉米，因为我已经用它了；而且我还是比较认同老王自己的原则的，正如我所分析，我认为他的指南跟欧洲、美国的指南并不冲突

Updated guide line recommands that entecavir and tenofovir as first line of antiviral treatment. The guide line recommand NOT to use LAM as first line of treatment because of its high drug resistence (5 year around 70%)


Dr. Wang suggest use LAM as the first choice of treatment.

Why do you say that: 他的指南跟欧洲、美国的指南并不冲突???

MiddleAgeMan

To: 大姐夫马甲

恩替毕竟还有变异率的，而且我之前记忆和了解到的数据，还不是bigben略列的数据，比这个要略高，不知道bigben这么乐观的数据是哪里引用的。虽然比拉米低，但是即使1%如果被我碰到了，就是100%，我不敢再尝试

You do not dare to try 1%, but you DO like 70% (5 years). Again, check your own logic here.

Or you meant that you do not dare to try 1%

other people who following Dr. Wang's "guildline" may get benefit to try 80%?

MiddleAgeMan

To: 八十岁后

不用质问我，我的意思明白的啊，是你自己理解有问题而已。不过可以重复一遍：不盲目排外！不妄自菲薄！取人之长，避己之短！西医有西医的好，中医有中医的妙！
正面回答你：为什么不敢进行双盲试验？——我想问你，必要么？双盲试验是西医的方法手段，它就一定适用于中医？你怎么不说兔子不敢从山崖跳下去滑翔一次，于是兔子就应该绝种？
中医要发展，就是要遵循它本身的理论来进行。按照你们这些洋大人的想法来发展，那肯定是绝路一条的。
再次给你们洋大人们提个醒：
1、中国5000来，没有西医，照样没绝种；
2、上至国家领导人，下至平头百姓，相信中医是绝大多数。不要跟我说你比国家领导人还睿智；
3、西医目前照样没能治愈乙肝，因此，它在乙肝上面没资格说中医是垃圾

Hi. I am a Chiinese in US. I have found out that I have chrinic hbv.

西医有西医的好，中医有中医的妙

西医 is good, it treats patients with results. 中医 is gabbage. Any illness that 中医 claim to treat, you could get treated with 西医. Any illness that could not be cured by 西医, then 中医 could not do anything about it.  

中国5000来，没有西医，照样没绝种 that does not support your 中医有中医的妙
上至国家领导人，下至平头百姓，相信中医是绝大多数。不要跟我说你比国家领导人还睿智. "国家领导人睿智"? you are so funny.

西医目前照样没能治愈乙肝，that is true. 因此，它在乙肝上面没资格说中医是垃圾. Yes, 中医是垃圾. 中医 is even worse than 垃圾. I throw out garbage. But if I get 中医 treatment, I will get hurt.

八十岁后, you do need a clear head. In today's world, any developed country: US, European countries, Japan, Australia, all have medicine (in china we call western medicine). There is no US medicine, Japanesse medicine, European medicine. Just like there are math and physics, there is no US math, Japanese math, European math. China is very "special" to have Traditional chinese Medicine? To put it other way, if you believe tranditional chinese medicine, then why not Tibatan medicine, african medicine, Indian medicine?