15/10/02说明:此前论坛服务器频繁出错,现已更换服务器。今后论坛继续数据库备份,不备份上传附件。

肝胆相照论坛

 

 

肝胆相照论坛 论坛 学术讨论& HBV English 我国科学家开发出比Cas9/sgRNA更优的基因编辑系统 ...
楼主: newchinabok
go

我国科学家开发出比Cas9/sgRNA更优的基因编辑系统   [复制链接]

Rank: 10Rank: 10Rank: 10

现金
14967 元 
精华
帖子
8594 
注册时间
2008-4-12 
最后登录
2024-11-9 
111
发表于 2016-8-12 20:21 |只看该作者
防火墙果然防火
欢迎收看肝胆卫士大型生活服务类节目《乙肝勿扰》,我们的目标是:普度众友,收获幸福。
我是忠肝义胆MP4。忠肝义胆-战友的天地
QQ群搜"忠肝义胆孰能群"加入

Rank: 8Rank: 8

现金
6897 元 
精华
帖子
2465 
注册时间
2016-1-26 
最后登录
2020-7-6 
112
发表于 2016-8-18 23:08 |只看该作者
日本東京都医学総合研究所的宮岡佑一郎 博士 8月17日,通过推特介绍自己按照韩更新后的操作流程依旧没有成功重现NgAgo功能。
https://twitter.com/YuichiroMiyaoka/status/765736519562702848

此外,另一些日本研究人员也八卦着这个事件。

http://www.aremachi.com/2016/08/ ... %e3%81%a4%e3%81%84/


宮岡佑一郎 博士 与另一位在哈佛的日本研究人员Hiroshi Sasakize在推特上进行讨论。Hiroshi Sasaki则直接点明,韩论文中采用其他细菌Ago进行DNA切断的数据很明确,所以in-vitro(按,指宮岡博士的试验)应该可以实现。但是现在(按,指按更新流程)也不能重复的话,in-vitro(按,韩论文中)的数据是不能信用的。

この論文(別の細菌AgoによるDNA切断)はデータが固いので、in vitroでは働きうると思うのですが、こうも再現性が取れないと、in vivoについては信用できないですね。


日本有“信用”社会文化。不要说研究人员,即便是普通市民,如果被说“不能信用”的话,基本上就很难在圈里混了。
最近论坛上救苦救难的大善人
咨询版的拉西大帝
他说拉米西斯精神依旧闪亮
删除所有反对言论,我很害怕!
都尿裤好几回啦!
今后你们大家别反对“拉米首药单药”
免得连累别的无辜战友倒霉

Rank: 8Rank: 8

现金
6897 元 
精华
帖子
2465 
注册时间
2016-1-26 
最后登录
2020-7-6 
113
发表于 2016-8-18 23:20 |只看该作者
日本研究人员也注意到《自然》8月8日的报道后面的留言中,有提及疑似韩副主席马甲的h301304事情。
「NgAgoが再現されたとWebio (中国のSNS)で 匿名ユーザーが発信しているが、そのユーザーIDは研究グループの部屋番号と一緒だ」

如同08年北京奥运将 jiayou,推向世界。
韩副主席,也将 majia推向世界吧。
最近论坛上救苦救难的大善人
咨询版的拉西大帝
他说拉米西斯精神依旧闪亮
删除所有反对言论,我很害怕!
都尿裤好几回啦!
今后你们大家别反对“拉米首药单药”
免得连累别的无辜战友倒霉

Rank: 8Rank: 8

现金
6897 元 
精华
帖子
2465 
注册时间
2016-1-26 
最后登录
2020-7-6 
114
发表于 2016-8-19 07:20 |只看该作者
本帖最后由 smilingcloud 于 2016-8-19 08:04 编辑

Paul Knoepfler博士在8/14的博客中如下评价NgAgo
http://www.ipscell.com/2016/08/new-ngago-protocol-helpful-red-flag/

If NgAgo works at all as reported in that paper as a nuclease that can be utilized for gene editing then my sense at the moment is that it’s got some very finicky things about it that will most likely negate it being widely useful for the field. It’s still possible it functions as some other kind of enzyme. Who knows at this point.



最近论坛上救苦救难的大善人
咨询版的拉西大帝
他说拉米西斯精神依旧闪亮
删除所有反对言论,我很害怕!
都尿裤好几回啦!
今后你们大家别反对“拉米首药单药”
免得连累别的无辜战友倒霉

Rank: 8Rank: 8

现金
6897 元 
精华
帖子
2465 
注册时间
2016-1-26 
最后登录
2020-7-6 
115
发表于 2016-8-20 08:55 |只看该作者
本帖最后由 smilingcloud 于 2016-8-20 09:11 编辑

Must read and follow NgAgo story!

http://forums.wormbase.org/index.php?topic=2798.0



It really seems that NgAgo is either not as good as advertised, or very finicky. ”
最近论坛上救苦救难的大善人
咨询版的拉西大帝
他说拉米西斯精神依旧闪亮
删除所有反对言论,我很害怕!
都尿裤好几回啦!
今后你们大家别反对“拉米首药单药”
免得连累别的无辜战友倒霉

Rank: 8Rank: 8

现金
6897 元 
精华
帖子
2465 
注册时间
2016-1-26 
最后登录
2020-7-6 
116
发表于 2016-8-23 05:51 |只看该作者
http://www.biotechniques.com/new ... 0.html#.V7tzbMRKOnN

To Edit or Not: The NgAgo Story
08/22/2016 Nathan Blow, PhD

To Edit or Not: The NgAgo Story
08/22/2016 Nathan Blow, PhD
Reports of new genome-editing approaches always receive widespread attention. But in the case of a novel Argonaute-based technique published last spring, the attention has been particularly intense. Learn more...



2



Credit: NIH Image Gallery

What’s Holding up Traffic?
3-D Printing: A Helping Hand for Prosthetics
Bridge Over Troubled Water
With an ever-growing array of applications being reported in the scientific literature, CRISPR/Cas9 remains the hot molecular biology technology of the moment. Yet there continues to be significant interest in refining and expanding current genome-editing tools for more efficient use. On the heels of the expansion of CRISPR, researchers introduced an argonaute-based genome editing approach that seemed to overcome some of CRISPR’s downsides.
With thoughts of a new tool to add to the genome-engineering toolbox, scientists set off on a whirlwind of experiments—which led to more questions as data analysis began.

A New Way to Edit Genes

In May 2016, Hebei University researchers Chunyu Han and his colleagues reported in the journal Nature Biotechnology that Natronobacterium gregoryi Argonaute (NgAgo) could function as a DNA-guided endonuclease capable of genome editing in human cells. The results were powerful since, unlike Cas9, NgAgo did not seem to require a protospacer-adjacent motif (PAM), making it easier to use for targeted genome editing. In addition, Han’s data showed that NgAgo resulted in low guide-target mismatch and high efficiency when editing difficult templates, such as GC-rich genomic targets. These features made the new system particularly attractive to researchers, and many were eager to test the method for themselves. In fact, according to a blog on the Addgene website (a plasmid repository) posted by MRC Centre for Regenerative Medicine postdoctoral fellow Pooran Dewari, more than 400 requests for the NgAgo plasmids have been made since publication.

The NgAgo system is not without its own shortcomings though—in vitro assembly of the NgAgo/single-stranded DNA (ssDNA) complex for targeting requires incubation at 55°C, a high temperature indeed for enzymes. Plus, the system involves co-transfection of the NgAgo plasmid with the targeting ssDNA guide, another cumbersome step. Still, with the possibility of little off-target editing, researchers could see potential for the tool.

The scientific community weren’t the only ones who had taken note of the publication; NgAgo gene editing quickly made its way into the general media. One Chinese news outlet quoted Han as saying that in the future, “With this technique, middle-aged men with bald heads can probably gain their hair though genetic repair.” The South China Morning Post detailed Han’s work in a story on underfunded researchers making significant contributions to science. And on the Nature Biotechnology website, Han’s NgAgo original article was getting more downloads and views than any other. Expectations and interest in NgAgo were sky-high out of the gate.

Wrinkles Appear

The internet has become a haven for researchers of all disciplines looking to find suggestions and tips to improve their experiments. Open sharing of ideas and strategies has become increasingly commonplace online, so it is no surprise that there is an active genome-engineering Google Group focused on methods and tools for genome modification.

The first entry in the Google genome-engineering group associated with NgAgo appeared June 23, 2016. It was from a researcher who tried to transfect with an NgAgo plasmid acquired from Addgene and a 5´P oligonucleotide targeting GFP for modification. This should have been a simple experiment where the editing results in a decrease in GFP fluorescence. The problem was that there was no change in fluorescence after transfection, according to the post. The researcher wondered if anyone else had experienced similar issues with the NgAgo system. A day later, another poster reported they too had tried targeting genes with the same NgAgo plasmid, and also failed to see the expected editing result.

It’s not unusual for researchers to have hiccups with new techniques in their first outing—there might be specific steps in a protocol that need to be exactly adhered to for achieving the intended result. But following those posts on June 23 and 24, more scientists posted their data. In time, trouble arose as there seemed to be two camps: some believed that the system might be working, while others agreed with the first two posts after they also did not see the expected results. Confusion wove its way through various group posts.

It’s worth taking a step back here and noting that life science research is in the middle of a reproducibility crisis. Several recent high profile reports that eventually had to be retracted (regarding STAP cells for example) have led many to question new findings to a greater extent than in the past. As of early July 2016, vetting of the NgAgo technique became increasingly intense as more researchers posted their results and the details of how they did their experiments, and requested assistance in getting the technique to work.

In an effort to gain some insight on the NgAgo controversy and where the technique stood, Dewari sent out a survey to users to assess their NgAgo research success. By early August, the results were in. When asked if indels (insertions and deletions) had been seen using the NgAgo system, only 5.1% said yes, while 51.5% said no. Using NgAgo for other genome editing applications yielded similar numbers. Based on the percentages, NgAgo was in trouble, but the question remained whether the problem lay in the technique itself or the researchers trying to implement it in other labs.

Consensus is a Complicated Road

Han has been quiet for the most part. According to reports, the researcher rarely travels outside of China. And while he has provided an additional protocol and detailed conditions for using NgAgo, as well as noting that researchers in other labs have been able to replicate the technique, the criticism has not been silenced. In fact, the additional protocol actually raised more concerns amongst critics with its specific time requirements and conditions.

Perhaps the best summation of the curvy road for NgAgo up to this point came from Gaetan Burgio, a group leader at Australian National University. On July 29, 2016, Burgio wrote a comprehensive blog entry on his experiences with trying to get NgAgo to work for gene editing.

Initially, Burgio said his PCR results indicated that NgAgo had edited the beta-spectrin gene he targeted using an NgAgo plasmid in a way that was similar to CRISPR/Cas9, vindication for NgAgo and Chunyu. Burgio posted this result on Twitter and mentioned it to colleagues at a conference he attended at the time. But shortly after Burgio’s first PCR results came in and the initial excitement died down, things started to change.

In a follow-up experiment, Burgio began to see small holes to the NgAgo gene editing validation data. Other enzyme tests he tried indicated that NgAgo had not edited the beta-spectrin gene as that first PCR gel suggested. Sequencing the PCR products again showed what Burgio suspected could be edited sequences. However, after isolating individual PCR bands and sequencing them, Burgio finally concluded that those sequences were in fact random and that no NgAgo editing ever occurred in his experiments.

Burgio’s results and conclusions have only bolstered the contention for many that the NgAgo system simply does not work. Others argue that there are specific cell lines and conditions that are needed for the gene-editing activity of NgAgo to be effective, but critics counter that even if true, this simply means the technique is not robust and therefore a not a viable substitute for CRISPR/Cas9.

Nature Biotechnology is currently investigating the NgAgo paper after being contacted by several researchers who were unable to replicate the findings. And Han’s university has also launched an inquiry.

While the future of NgAgo is still up in the air as scientists work to determine whether or not the enzyme is in fact capable of gene editing, Dewari’s survey indicates most (64.5%) are now holding off on experiments, waiting to see what happens. Time will tell if NgAgo ends up in the genome-engineering toolbox.

Reference

Gao et al. 2016. DNA-guided genome editing using Natronobacterium gregoryi Argonaute. Nat. Biotechnol. 34, 768-773.

Keywords:  CRISPR NgAgo Cas9 genome editing argonaute Han Chunyu controversy reproducibility
最近论坛上救苦救难的大善人
咨询版的拉西大帝
他说拉米西斯精神依旧闪亮
删除所有反对言论,我很害怕!
都尿裤好几回啦!
今后你们大家别反对“拉米首药单药”
免得连累别的无辜战友倒霉

Rank: 4

现金
105 元 
精华
帖子
72 
注册时间
2013-1-12 
最后登录
2021-10-6 
117
发表于 2016-8-23 22:44 |只看该作者
我在此宣布,mp4完败,体制阶层完败。公党能干出科学成绩,与吹体质伟光正的次数相比只是沧海一粟,完毕。

Rank: 10Rank: 10Rank: 10

现金
14967 元 
精华
帖子
8594 
注册时间
2008-4-12 
最后登录
2024-11-9 
118
发表于 2016-8-24 10:33 |只看该作者
喜从天降 发表于 2016-8-23 22:44
我在此宣布,mp4完败,体制阶层完败。公党能干出科学成绩,与吹体质伟光正的次数相比只是沧海一粟,完毕。 ...



你宣布?你是站天安门上还是站月球上宣布?
和我什么关系?那我还宣布你是放屁呢

欢迎收看肝胆卫士大型生活服务类节目《乙肝勿扰》,我们的目标是:普度众友,收获幸福。
我是忠肝义胆MP4。忠肝义胆-战友的天地
QQ群搜"忠肝义胆孰能群"加入

Rank: 8Rank: 8

现金
6897 元 
精华
帖子
2465 
注册时间
2016-1-26 
最后登录
2020-7-6 
119
发表于 2016-8-24 10:40 |只看该作者
教育部发布《高等学校预防与处理学术不端行为办法》
http://www.gov.cn/xinwen/2016-07/19/content_5092690.htm
教育部就《高等学校预防与处理学术不端行为办法》答记者问
http://www.gov.cn/xinwen/2016-07/19/content_5092684.htm
最近论坛上救苦救难的大善人
咨询版的拉西大帝
他说拉米西斯精神依旧闪亮
删除所有反对言论,我很害怕!
都尿裤好几回啦!
今后你们大家别反对“拉米首药单药”
免得连累别的无辜战友倒霉

Rank: 10Rank: 10Rank: 10

现金
14967 元 
精华
帖子
8594 
注册时间
2008-4-12 
最后登录
2024-11-9 
120
发表于 2016-8-24 10:48 |只看该作者
最高人民法院、最高人民检察院关于办理利用信息网络实施诽谤等刑事案件适用法律若干问题的解释
http://www.cac.gov.cn/2013-09/07/m_133142246.htm

欢迎收看肝胆卫士大型生活服务类节目《乙肝勿扰》,我们的目标是:普度众友,收获幸福。
我是忠肝义胆MP4。忠肝义胆-战友的天地
QQ群搜"忠肝义胆孰能群"加入
‹ 上一主题|下一主题

肝胆相照论坛

GMT+8, 2024-11-15 20:29 , Processed in 0.015154 second(s), 10 queries , Gzip On.

Powered by Discuz! X1.5

© 2001-2010 Comsenz Inc.